For a long time now I have felt literally subhuan because of the way that I look. Try as I might to accept the HAES pov, I just have not been able to believe that anyone ever saw e as anything other than a fat slob who, on occasion, might be able to put together a decent wardrobe.
So I don't know what to make of a recent story.
Not to long ago I was at a party for someone I love. I took the same level of care with my clothing and makeup as I would for any formal, special event. I even put in my contacts.
As a part of the party the guests were asked to provide the entertainment. Not being one for singing or dancing, I went with what I know- I wrote a poem. Even I will admit that I thought the poem was pretty good, but I figured it would end at that.
I come from a family of beautiful people, and generally prefer to hide in the background as much as possible, so as soon as I was finished I gave the guest of honour a hug and sat back down at my table.
Shortly thereafter another guest, one who I would consider among the most beautiful of the beautiful people and I were chatting. "You know," she said to me "when you were standing up there reading that poem with the light on you, I realized I must have never really looked at you before. You have such a beautiful face".
And there is it folks. Because of who it came from I am taking it as a complement, but that line "you have such a beautiful face" just screams the internal thought "if only you would lose the weight." I got the exact same comment a few days later from someone else.
Was it just that normally I hide behind my glasses and everyone around me and this is one of the only times I stood there on my own apart from everyone else- I would love to believe it and am really trying- but wasn't that also true on my wedding day? No one said anything then. Was it that I was speaking from my heart to someone I truly love? Also would have been true on my wedding day.
So why now? Why now when I feel worse about myself than I ever have in my entire life. I feel ugly and sad and broken. The compliment was amazing- made me feel like flying for a little while- but the more I go through time as a sadder me, the more people seem to be attracted to me than they ever were to the happy me.
Monday, September 5, 2011
Saturday, September 4, 2010
I think it's back
I think the cyst is back and I am terrified to go to a doctor about it. Great. Now what?
Really, that doctor was so helpful...
eta. made an appointment with a dermatologist. Hope he is not a creep.
Really, that doctor was so helpful...
eta. made an appointment with a dermatologist. Hope he is not a creep.
Wednesday, June 2, 2010
Doctors
I generally avoid doctors at all costs. I have found that, regardless of whether I have a hangnail or a broken arm, the answer I get generally involves "well, you need to lose weight".
Ok, firstly, no kidding. I am fat. Do you really think that all I needed was for you to point it out to me? Oh my gosh, I never noticed, thank you so much! I am going to go lose 10,000 lbs overnight and then you can treat the problem tomorrow when I come back all nice and skinny okay?
Secondly, do you really think that is how you can be most helpful?
So now that you have the background.
I woke up Thursday with a huge lump on my shoulder. Being me, I figured I did not need to see anyone, it was just a bump and it would go away. By Friday it was a bump that hurt. Saturday it was so bad I actually called to book a doctor's appointment for later in the week. first one I could get with my doctor was for Thursday.
Ok, I could hold out to then.
Woke up sunday morning and could not turn my head. Called the doctors office and asked to see someone, anyone, ASAP. They got me in to see a new doctor in the practice for later that afternoon.
now, this story is not about her. Truth be told, I like her and will likely keep using her as I like her more than my old doctor, and since she is new it is way faster to get an appointment. No this is the story of a different set of doctors. 2 sets in fact.
She sent me to the emergency room. I got there, checked in and went to the nurse. Everything was fine except for the fact that I had really high blood pressure. Now, I know from experience that my blood pressure has always been on the low end. I am fat, I am not hypertensive. Well, I was for like 2 days once infection set in before my daughter was delivered, but generally no infection, no high blood pressure.
I spent the rest of my er visit hearing about the my high blood pressure (even though the nurse also told me that if I knew it to be irregular than it probably was from infection/pain and to just have it taken again after just to be sure). So, not related to anything to do with why I was there the doctors order blood sugars taken. Of course, if one is fat one MUST be diabetic. Funny, although they did say it was high for fasting- I WAS NOT FASTING! I had eaten a yogurt and had some juice less than an hour earlier.
Ok, they drained the cyst. I told them I was pretty sure there was still junk in there, but they told me I was wrong. Bandaged it so tightly I could not move my head, shoulder or neck and it was causing more pain than the cyst, and sent me home.
Went to the nurse the next day to change the dressing. Seriously, 2/3 of the pain went away the minute she put on a normal dressing not pulled tight enough to create a slingshot. she took my blood pressure as requested. It was still above normal, but had dropped 30 ish points from the night before. she took that as a sign it was pain related. Cleaned the wound and whatnot, re bandaged it and let me go.
Ok, last night it really started to hurt again. A lot. Went back to my doctor who said it was not fully drained (can you say "I told you so"?) and sent me back to the ER.
Triage said blood pressure was high (but not as high as the first night), but other than that no problem. They are putting me in to see an orthopedic surgeon. Why orthopedic? No idea, but that is what they did. Told me it would be about 15 minutes. an hour and 45 minutes later I saw the orthopedic surgeon long enough to have him rip off the bandage, poke it a bit, tell me not his problem, then watch him go yell at a nurse.
I am no in more pain than I was when I came in, have no clean bandage, and am at the bottom of the list for a regular surgeon.
Regular surgeon comes in. you need bariatric surgery. What is the problem today. Oh, a cyst is because you are fat. you need a lap band. Lie down so I can clean this out.
While he was cleaning it out, he was going on about how I NEED it done. I said I am working on things with my own doctor. He laughed. I said (while face down with him having a scalpel in my back) can we talk about this later? He said no. Now. I need ot make sure you hear it.
Like I said, I am fat. I know I am fat. Is it an option? Certainly- and maybe one that should be considered, but this is neither the time nor the place! He demanded we make an appointment at his office for Monday- allegedly to look in on the wound, but I am nearly 1000000000000% sure I know better. Unless there is a major problem, I will go to my own doctor and cancel the one I was forced into in another city!d not slept in for longer than 20 minutes at a shot in almost a week.
Oh, did I mentioned he also told me outright I was lying and he rarely thinks patients are right when I said I was not over concerned about a high ish blood pressure while I was in mass amounts of pain and ha
I am furious. Not for being told I am fat- that is not really a secret, but for being held in a literal headlock while he told an otherwise healthy patient that she needs major surgery! If I consider it, it will be after discussion with my doctor to see if it is the right option. If I do it, it will not be because someone held me in a headlock until I agreed.
This is why I rarely go see a doctor even when I am in pain and probably should. I have no idea how he thought this would help, but if not for a good GP I would likely stay away from a doctor next time I need one based on today.
Ok, firstly, no kidding. I am fat. Do you really think that all I needed was for you to point it out to me? Oh my gosh, I never noticed, thank you so much! I am going to go lose 10,000 lbs overnight and then you can treat the problem tomorrow when I come back all nice and skinny okay?
Secondly, do you really think that is how you can be most helpful?
So now that you have the background.
I woke up Thursday with a huge lump on my shoulder. Being me, I figured I did not need to see anyone, it was just a bump and it would go away. By Friday it was a bump that hurt. Saturday it was so bad I actually called to book a doctor's appointment for later in the week. first one I could get with my doctor was for Thursday.
Ok, I could hold out to then.
Woke up sunday morning and could not turn my head. Called the doctors office and asked to see someone, anyone, ASAP. They got me in to see a new doctor in the practice for later that afternoon.
now, this story is not about her. Truth be told, I like her and will likely keep using her as I like her more than my old doctor, and since she is new it is way faster to get an appointment. No this is the story of a different set of doctors. 2 sets in fact.
She sent me to the emergency room. I got there, checked in and went to the nurse. Everything was fine except for the fact that I had really high blood pressure. Now, I know from experience that my blood pressure has always been on the low end. I am fat, I am not hypertensive. Well, I was for like 2 days once infection set in before my daughter was delivered, but generally no infection, no high blood pressure.
I spent the rest of my er visit hearing about the my high blood pressure (even though the nurse also told me that if I knew it to be irregular than it probably was from infection/pain and to just have it taken again after just to be sure). So, not related to anything to do with why I was there the doctors order blood sugars taken. Of course, if one is fat one MUST be diabetic. Funny, although they did say it was high for fasting- I WAS NOT FASTING! I had eaten a yogurt and had some juice less than an hour earlier.
Ok, they drained the cyst. I told them I was pretty sure there was still junk in there, but they told me I was wrong. Bandaged it so tightly I could not move my head, shoulder or neck and it was causing more pain than the cyst, and sent me home.
Went to the nurse the next day to change the dressing. Seriously, 2/3 of the pain went away the minute she put on a normal dressing not pulled tight enough to create a slingshot. she took my blood pressure as requested. It was still above normal, but had dropped 30 ish points from the night before. she took that as a sign it was pain related. Cleaned the wound and whatnot, re bandaged it and let me go.
Ok, last night it really started to hurt again. A lot. Went back to my doctor who said it was not fully drained (can you say "I told you so"?) and sent me back to the ER.
Triage said blood pressure was high (but not as high as the first night), but other than that no problem. They are putting me in to see an orthopedic surgeon. Why orthopedic? No idea, but that is what they did. Told me it would be about 15 minutes. an hour and 45 minutes later I saw the orthopedic surgeon long enough to have him rip off the bandage, poke it a bit, tell me not his problem, then watch him go yell at a nurse.
I am no in more pain than I was when I came in, have no clean bandage, and am at the bottom of the list for a regular surgeon.
Regular surgeon comes in. you need bariatric surgery. What is the problem today. Oh, a cyst is because you are fat. you need a lap band. Lie down so I can clean this out.
While he was cleaning it out, he was going on about how I NEED it done. I said I am working on things with my own doctor. He laughed. I said (while face down with him having a scalpel in my back) can we talk about this later? He said no. Now. I need ot make sure you hear it.
Like I said, I am fat. I know I am fat. Is it an option? Certainly- and maybe one that should be considered, but this is neither the time nor the place! He demanded we make an appointment at his office for Monday- allegedly to look in on the wound, but I am nearly 1000000000000% sure I know better. Unless there is a major problem, I will go to my own doctor and cancel the one I was forced into in another city!d not slept in for longer than 20 minutes at a shot in almost a week.
Oh, did I mentioned he also told me outright I was lying and he rarely thinks patients are right when I said I was not over concerned about a high ish blood pressure while I was in mass amounts of pain and ha
I am furious. Not for being told I am fat- that is not really a secret, but for being held in a literal headlock while he told an otherwise healthy patient that she needs major surgery! If I consider it, it will be after discussion with my doctor to see if it is the right option. If I do it, it will not be because someone held me in a headlock until I agreed.
This is why I rarely go see a doctor even when I am in pain and probably should. I have no idea how he thought this would help, but if not for a good GP I would likely stay away from a doctor next time I need one based on today.
Wednesday, March 31, 2010
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Flying
So when we started looking into tickets to visit family this summer I asked our travel agent to be sure we were looking at "fat-friendly" airlines. Would you believe he had no idea what i was talking about and says he had never heard of an airline charging for more than once seat per passenger.
Naive agent or has the issue really just not come to Europoe/Asia yet?
Naive agent or has the issue really just not come to Europoe/Asia yet?
Monday, March 15, 2010
A question from a forum I frequent
A question was recently posed on an internet forum that I frequent "Do ugly people know they are ugly". I did not reply there, but in my head my answer was "Yes we do." No I am not saying all fat people are ugly, but I feel like I am. If I were to lose all my weight I am pretty sure I would still not be attractive.
Someone posted that the only truly ugly people they know are ugly on the inside, and that maybe it was just cases of the outside reflecting the inside. I certainly hope that is not true. While I might not be pretty, I would hate to think it was because I was also an awful person!
Someone posted that the only truly ugly people they know are ugly on the inside, and that maybe it was just cases of the outside reflecting the inside. I certainly hope that is not true. While I might not be pretty, I would hate to think it was because I was also an awful person!
Sunday, December 27, 2009
Touring the country
For a country ful of gorgeous people, it is amazing how comfortable travel around these parts can be. I have never, not once, found a situation or seat that was not usable. I am constantly surrounded by people who seem to take their own bodies, and high and low points there of, in stride. It is entirely normal to see a woman with a tummy in a short or tight (or both) shirt and low ride pants with totally kick @$$ heels. Bus seats, train seats, movie seats- seriously, if you are looking for a comfortable vacation Israel is the place to visit.
Not around much
I know I have not exactly been an avid posted on this or any other blogs I have been involved with- but out of curiosity, is there anyone actually reading this blog or even keeping it on their blog watches? I am thinking of revitalizing it and am not sure if it is worth the bother. On the other hand, I do so love the background on this one it would be a shame to let it go to waste.
Monday, April 20, 2009
United Airlines
So United Airlines has become the latest in the line of airlines who plan to charge fat fliers for a 2nd seat.
Based on their criteria, is you need a more than one extended (I don't) or can't put the arm rest down (I can) or fill part of another a seat you will be forced to get a 2nd seat. If none is available you will not be allowed to fly.
Thankfully, Canada has the one person one fare policy. Not so thankfully, nowhere else on the planet does.
when my extended family went away last year the travel agent made my grandmother buy two seats for me. Did I use two? Nope. did I get two? Nope. Did my grandmother get any money back? Nope. Did the airline ask any questions? Nope.
Frankly, thought I have never ever for a day in my life wanted to be, I am fat (anyone who says "so do something about it" can go !@#$%^. I only wish it were that easy). Although I am sure people beg to differ, have never had problems flying (Although I live in dread for weeks ahead of time every time I need to fly that I will be humiliated in public as I look like I should need two, but carry my weight in such a way I never have). I fly with my husband and daughter who combined probably do not fill a single seat- so if they have no issue, should you 3 or 4 or five seats away?
Have you seen some of the comments on these stories? They are repugnant and an completely inappropriate for dealing with any other living being, let alone a human one! Many of these people are outright discriminating and these are the people who are going to decide if I need to spend an extra $1400 to go visit my family?
The article says they received over 700 complaints last year. Do the math. Let's guess 10 flights a day (although I am pretty sure it is well more than that) and say 200 people on a flight (although again I suspect the number is actually much higher). So 2000 people a day, times 365 days a year is 73000 people. So less than 1% of people had issues.
Now how many people do you think complained about other things that are not being touched? how many complained about the lack of legroom? The lousy food? A screen not working? I was on a flight last year where my entire group, 30+ people complained about the screens not working on one flight. How many complaints were about 1 person who may have been a real problem on a plane?
I will agree that it is unfair to sit practically on top of someone for the entire flight, but frankly, if you are going to start enforcing that than other changes need to be made as well. I have spent flights with babies who are not mine practically in my lap for the whole flight. I have spent flights with adults or children who have fallen asleep on my shoulder and seem to be incapable of moving. I have spent time on flights with people who have bad knees and spent the whole time stretching into "my leg space". If they are going to enforce a "pay for what you use" policy they need to be more uniform about doing so.
If someone does buy 2 seats, are they entitled to double the luggage? Twice the meals? Twice the service? If it is being treated as a disability are people to get the other services offered to the disabled? Prime seating areas? First choice of seats?
People are so friggen' blind when it comes to discrimination. If it is not an obvious discrimination with which they do not agree, you can make up all sorts of excuses to allow anything.
The following is a facebook conversation with the other person's name removed so as to protect their privacy. For reference sake, a kupah is socialized healthcare that exists in this country. Every citizen pays a portion (4 something %) towards the cost of keeping it running, and every citizen is entitled to make use of it.
The thread was started by someone genuinely (I think) interested in a discussion about whether this was a good tihng or not. His title was
Is it a crime to be fat? with a link to this article http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/04/united_oversize.php (and the horrible comments therein.
(I am removing non related to the dialogue comments) I am in italics just to make it easier ot read. The conversation is slightly out of order as I was responding to post on the site before they came in to my in box and vice versa I am certain. I am sure she is well versed in her field and knowledgable, but to my mind the prejudice holds just the same. To tell me that in a socialist system, where everybody is equal, except some are substantially less equal- that I have issues with. As I said, I agree that airplanes are a seperate issue, but to tell me I am less worthy of medical care even though I am not using the resources she claims I am? to tell me I am different from others becuase I am not dead? This is where I have major issues.
Her
I want to preface my comment by saying that while I obviously have some strong opinions on the health status of the morbidly obese, I don't judge them as people. But yes, being that heavy (what the medical profession would term seriously obese to morbidly obese) is a lifestyle choice - obviously not everyone (myself included) can be a size 6. But no one's genetic makeup *forces* them to be a size 3X. One may be predisposed to be heavier, but diet and exercise (other lifestyle choices) can bring you down to a much healthier weight.
In terms of "eating up" resources in the kupat holim. The kupat holim is just that - a joint kuppah. Each person pays 4.8% of their salary in bituach briut, which in turn gets distributed amongst the kupot holim based on the number of members. It is a fact that the seriously obese have far greater risk of type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease - which are all costly illnesses and have costly outcomes.
Me
Sorry, but if it is for everyone, than everyone share alike. Being fat may lead to certain complication, but many other lifestyle issues lead to high risks in other areas. Beach bums lead to skin cancer. Chareidi lifestyle leads to vitamin D deficiencies and thus various cancers, as well as to higher pregnancy rates. Who are you to say "fat" is any worse than any of the others? Like I said, I am a whole lot healthier than many of my tiny friends.
Her
...since there is a finite amount of money in the kupah, and it has to be used to meet all the needs of its members, when money is spent on diabetes, blood pressure, etc., there is less money to spend on other things (birth control, cancer medications, etc.). I just think that being seriously obese serves no one's greater interest and if people who were that obese (along with smokers) knew they'd be in a kupat holim where they'd have to either lose weight or pay the price, it might be a good incentive. lets say that there are 6 million citizens and 600 million shekels (just to make a nice number) in the collective kupah coffers. maccabi has one million people, so it would get 100 million NIS, meuhedet had 2 million ppl so it would get 200 million, and so on. lets say of the one million maccabi members 250,000 are obese and 70% have expensive obesity related illnesses. Lets say each obese person costs the kupah 200 NIS per year in diabetes care (its way more) - that 35 million spent
Me
and again, how is that different from any of the other lifestyles I listed? The person who spends hours on a beach, or had a huge number of children?
Her
that's my whole point - obesity (and again, smoking) related illnesses do not share alike when it comes to the kupat holim - they require a disproportionate amount of funds to treat the issues, leaving markedly less for other things. the higher pregnancy rates and the 10 kids disprove your point. that brings 10 more peopel (and thus that much more money) into the kupah.
Me
by your definition everyone must spend equal ammounts of time in the sun, equal amounts of time out of the sun, have the same number of children, work in jobs with the same potential for injury, etc.
so you are saying that because I am staying alive and not breeding regularly I end up costing the kupah more? There are loads of other things I am not doing that are not costing the kupah anything. By your logic, people who are more active should never be allowed to be so as they might injure themselves, stay alive, and need treatment indefinitely- or they should be forced into their own kupah.
Her
and yes, certain lifestyle choices bring inherent risk (and inherent cost) with them, but none on as great a scale or as wide a cost as obesity and smoking. 90% of adults have vitamin D deficiency because they spend most of the day working.
if obesity didn't cost the kupat holim so much money, then why do they fund gastric bypass surgery for anyone over a certain BMI? because its cheaper for the health system to pay for that surgery then to pay for the associated costs of a lifetime of obesity.
i think you're missing the point of a kupat holim - its to spread the risk equally and evenly, and when you have a cetain demogrpahic of people using a grossly disproportionate amount of the resources, that makes a lot less resources for the rest of the people. obviously there can't be a kupah for cancer-free, illness-free, sick-free people. that isn't the point. but like the airplane seat analogy, if someone takes up more than his/her alloted seat, that means one other person is going to get less than his/her allotted seat. in your case, you have a spouse who takes up less and would happily share hiss eat with you, so that's great. but not everyone has that. why should I be "penalized" and get less than a full seat because I'm sitting next to someone who chooses to be obese? same goes for the kupah...why shoudl I get less services because so many people choose to be obese?
Me
No one on as a large a scale? In what world? We are no larger a segment of society than the 90% you listed above! The fact that it is super common does not make it any more problematic.
I am very glad you are not in the position to understand. Really, I would not wish the hateful things I have heard on anyone- but to say we are less worthy of being alive (see your comments above where you were pretty clear that part of the difference that makes it so much worse is that we continue to need treatment rather than ceasing to exist!) seems rather inappropriate don't you think?
If a child is born with severe, life affecting disabilities, would you have them uninsured or not saved at birth? And there are huge risks associated with it.
And they do not fund it as you described.
And there are huge risks associated with it. You would have someone go through major surgery, under anesthetic, so you can have a more comfortable seat on a plane?
where is an example of you getting less services? Each gets what they need? If god forbid you are injured that does not mean I begrudge you getting the services you need. As I said, currently the only thing I am "taking" from the kupah is my daughters strep throat medicine. In 30 years I am rarely sick, have 0 issues and presume most people take more tan I do from the kupah.
What does bother me is skinny people who think that just because I am fat means that I have less right to regular treatment than they do. If you were to one day see me sitting in the kupah waiting for, oh, I don't know, a strep test, I am 100% sure you would think about how much "extra" I am taking from the kupah- regaurdless of whether you have the slightest knowledge of my or not.
I could have never been there before in my life and you would jump to the conclusion because I am fat.
Her
the disabled child didn't do anything to be born that way - its not a lifestyle choice. i think you are misunderstanding - i'm not saying someone deserves to die because they're fat, and nor did I even insinuate that. my point exactly about the 90% thing - the obese use a larger amount of resources without being that large a percent of society.
I think i am goign to end this discussion because you don't seem capable of not taking this to the wrong level. I didn't say that anyone should be forced to have gastric bypass - simply using it as an example of how much obesity costs the healthcare system. the best option would obvisouly to diet and exercise to a healthy weight.
although you claim to be happy and healthy with your weight, your comments indicate otherwise
Me
Where in the world did I say I was happy with the situation? Please learn to argue the facts as presented.
Her
you can't be 100% sure of anything about me...you have no idea what i weigh, what i have weighed or what i think about heavy people.
Me
as you took my comments, so I took yours. As you see my picture, so I see yours. Based on what you have written and how you have presented yourselves you are right, I can not be 100% sure, but I can certainly presume, (especially as you said it outright!) that you believe fat people, and smokers, should be in a separate kupah (inferring they have no place in yours).
Her
i merely am saying that it would be cost-effective for obese people to be in their own kupah - and yes, cost-effective for the non obese. and if all the obese were in a separate kupah, the money spent on the obesity related care may not leave enough for you to get your strep test! i'm glad you haven't suffered from any of the typical obesity related illnesses, but you are only 30 plus and I'm sorry to say, the odds are not in your favor. and please don't misconstrye that as a threat or a nasty comment. I'm simply saying you need to look at the lifetime, not the youth.
Me
How would it be cost effective. a % of a paycheck is a % of a paycheck. Believe me the only threat I see from you is the fact that someone may one day listen to you and I will then be thrown out if I show up for a strep test. The odds are never in my favour. They were not in my favour when I was in school at a mathy place and wanted to study arts. They were not in my favour when I was a fat kid and started dating. They were seriously not in my favour when I wanted to move to Israel and was flat broke- fortunatly I put my trust in God and not in people who point out the odds.
I am frusterated and sad the soemone in the health care field should be willing to say to my face (well, my avatar picture) that I am a problem for the kupah becuase I am staying alive. I have a huge problem with the fact she thinks other areas are acceptable risks, and would have me go through major surgery so her seat on the plane could be more comfortable. I am severely pissed that I know there are loads of people like her out there and they are the reason that I am scared to leave the house half of the time- and truly aggravated with myself that I let people like this get to me.
Feel free to comment away , but please know that I like myself too much to tolerated hate speak against me even if I am excluded from the group (ie, the majority of fatties, except you sort of thing) and will defriend, block or eat anyone who writes something along any of those lines. I do recognize the fact people should pay for what they use (as I mention over there) but the inappropriateness of some comments is revolting and I will not tolerate it.
Based on their criteria, is you need a more than one extended (I don't) or can't put the arm rest down (I can) or fill part of another a seat you will be forced to get a 2nd seat. If none is available you will not be allowed to fly.
Thankfully, Canada has the one person one fare policy. Not so thankfully, nowhere else on the planet does.
when my extended family went away last year the travel agent made my grandmother buy two seats for me. Did I use two? Nope. did I get two? Nope. Did my grandmother get any money back? Nope. Did the airline ask any questions? Nope.
Frankly, thought I have never ever for a day in my life wanted to be, I am fat (anyone who says "so do something about it" can go !@#$%^. I only wish it were that easy). Although I am sure people beg to differ, have never had problems flying (Although I live in dread for weeks ahead of time every time I need to fly that I will be humiliated in public as I look like I should need two, but carry my weight in such a way I never have). I fly with my husband and daughter who combined probably do not fill a single seat- so if they have no issue, should you 3 or 4 or five seats away?
Have you seen some of the comments on these stories? They are repugnant and an completely inappropriate for dealing with any other living being, let alone a human one! Many of these people are outright discriminating and these are the people who are going to decide if I need to spend an extra $1400 to go visit my family?
The article says they received over 700 complaints last year. Do the math. Let's guess 10 flights a day (although I am pretty sure it is well more than that) and say 200 people on a flight (although again I suspect the number is actually much higher). So 2000 people a day, times 365 days a year is 73000 people. So less than 1% of people had issues.
Now how many people do you think complained about other things that are not being touched? how many complained about the lack of legroom? The lousy food? A screen not working? I was on a flight last year where my entire group, 30+ people complained about the screens not working on one flight. How many complaints were about 1 person who may have been a real problem on a plane?
I will agree that it is unfair to sit practically on top of someone for the entire flight, but frankly, if you are going to start enforcing that than other changes need to be made as well. I have spent flights with babies who are not mine practically in my lap for the whole flight. I have spent flights with adults or children who have fallen asleep on my shoulder and seem to be incapable of moving. I have spent time on flights with people who have bad knees and spent the whole time stretching into "my leg space". If they are going to enforce a "pay for what you use" policy they need to be more uniform about doing so.
If someone does buy 2 seats, are they entitled to double the luggage? Twice the meals? Twice the service? If it is being treated as a disability are people to get the other services offered to the disabled? Prime seating areas? First choice of seats?
People are so friggen' blind when it comes to discrimination. If it is not an obvious discrimination with which they do not agree, you can make up all sorts of excuses to allow anything.
The following is a facebook conversation with the other person's name removed so as to protect their privacy. For reference sake, a kupah is socialized healthcare that exists in this country. Every citizen pays a portion (4 something %) towards the cost of keeping it running, and every citizen is entitled to make use of it.
The thread was started by someone genuinely (I think) interested in a discussion about whether this was a good tihng or not. His title was
Is it a crime to be fat? with a link to this article http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/04/united_oversize.php (and the horrible comments therein.
(I am removing non related to the dialogue comments) I am in italics just to make it easier ot read. The conversation is slightly out of order as I was responding to post on the site before they came in to my in box and vice versa I am certain. I am sure she is well versed in her field and knowledgable, but to my mind the prejudice holds just the same. To tell me that in a socialist system, where everybody is equal, except some are substantially less equal- that I have issues with. As I said, I agree that airplanes are a seperate issue, but to tell me I am less worthy of medical care even though I am not using the resources she claims I am? to tell me I am different from others becuase I am not dead? This is where I have major issues.
Her
I want to preface my comment by saying that while I obviously have some strong opinions on the health status of the morbidly obese, I don't judge them as people. But yes, being that heavy (what the medical profession would term seriously obese to morbidly obese) is a lifestyle choice - obviously not everyone (myself included) can be a size 6. But no one's genetic makeup *forces* them to be a size 3X. One may be predisposed to be heavier, but diet and exercise (other lifestyle choices) can bring you down to a much healthier weight.
In terms of "eating up" resources in the kupat holim. The kupat holim is just that - a joint kuppah. Each person pays 4.8% of their salary in bituach briut, which in turn gets distributed amongst the kupot holim based on the number of members. It is a fact that the seriously obese have far greater risk of type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease - which are all costly illnesses and have costly outcomes.
Me
Sorry, but if it is for everyone, than everyone share alike. Being fat may lead to certain complication, but many other lifestyle issues lead to high risks in other areas. Beach bums lead to skin cancer. Chareidi lifestyle leads to vitamin D deficiencies and thus various cancers, as well as to higher pregnancy rates. Who are you to say "fat" is any worse than any of the others? Like I said, I am a whole lot healthier than many of my tiny friends.
Her
...since there is a finite amount of money in the kupah, and it has to be used to meet all the needs of its members, when money is spent on diabetes, blood pressure, etc., there is less money to spend on other things (birth control, cancer medications, etc.). I just think that being seriously obese serves no one's greater interest and if people who were that obese (along with smokers) knew they'd be in a kupat holim where they'd have to either lose weight or pay the price, it might be a good incentive. lets say that there are 6 million citizens and 600 million shekels (just to make a nice number) in the collective kupah coffers. maccabi has one million people, so it would get 100 million NIS, meuhedet had 2 million ppl so it would get 200 million, and so on. lets say of the one million maccabi members 250,000 are obese and 70% have expensive obesity related illnesses. Lets say each obese person costs the kupah 200 NIS per year in diabetes care (its way more) - that 35 million spent
Me
and again, how is that different from any of the other lifestyles I listed? The person who spends hours on a beach, or had a huge number of children?
Her
that's my whole point - obesity (and again, smoking) related illnesses do not share alike when it comes to the kupat holim - they require a disproportionate amount of funds to treat the issues, leaving markedly less for other things. the higher pregnancy rates and the 10 kids disprove your point. that brings 10 more peopel (and thus that much more money) into the kupah.
Me
by your definition everyone must spend equal ammounts of time in the sun, equal amounts of time out of the sun, have the same number of children, work in jobs with the same potential for injury, etc.
so you are saying that because I am staying alive and not breeding regularly I end up costing the kupah more? There are loads of other things I am not doing that are not costing the kupah anything. By your logic, people who are more active should never be allowed to be so as they might injure themselves, stay alive, and need treatment indefinitely- or they should be forced into their own kupah.
Her
and yes, certain lifestyle choices bring inherent risk (and inherent cost) with them, but none on as great a scale or as wide a cost as obesity and smoking. 90% of adults have vitamin D deficiency because they spend most of the day working.
if obesity didn't cost the kupat holim so much money, then why do they fund gastric bypass surgery for anyone over a certain BMI? because its cheaper for the health system to pay for that surgery then to pay for the associated costs of a lifetime of obesity.
i think you're missing the point of a kupat holim - its to spread the risk equally and evenly, and when you have a cetain demogrpahic of people using a grossly disproportionate amount of the resources, that makes a lot less resources for the rest of the people. obviously there can't be a kupah for cancer-free, illness-free, sick-free people. that isn't the point. but like the airplane seat analogy, if someone takes up more than his/her alloted seat, that means one other person is going to get less than his/her allotted seat. in your case, you have a spouse who takes up less and would happily share hiss eat with you, so that's great. but not everyone has that. why should I be "penalized" and get less than a full seat because I'm sitting next to someone who chooses to be obese? same goes for the kupah...why shoudl I get less services because so many people choose to be obese?
Me
No one on as a large a scale? In what world? We are no larger a segment of society than the 90% you listed above! The fact that it is super common does not make it any more problematic.
I am very glad you are not in the position to understand. Really, I would not wish the hateful things I have heard on anyone- but to say we are less worthy of being alive (see your comments above where you were pretty clear that part of the difference that makes it so much worse is that we continue to need treatment rather than ceasing to exist!) seems rather inappropriate don't you think?
If a child is born with severe, life affecting disabilities, would you have them uninsured or not saved at birth? And there are huge risks associated with it.
And they do not fund it as you described.
And there are huge risks associated with it. You would have someone go through major surgery, under anesthetic, so you can have a more comfortable seat on a plane?
where is an example of you getting less services? Each gets what they need? If god forbid you are injured that does not mean I begrudge you getting the services you need. As I said, currently the only thing I am "taking" from the kupah is my daughters strep throat medicine. In 30 years I am rarely sick, have 0 issues and presume most people take more tan I do from the kupah.
What does bother me is skinny people who think that just because I am fat means that I have less right to regular treatment than they do. If you were to one day see me sitting in the kupah waiting for, oh, I don't know, a strep test, I am 100% sure you would think about how much "extra" I am taking from the kupah- regaurdless of whether you have the slightest knowledge of my or not.
I could have never been there before in my life and you would jump to the conclusion because I am fat.
Her
the disabled child didn't do anything to be born that way - its not a lifestyle choice. i think you are misunderstanding - i'm not saying someone deserves to die because they're fat, and nor did I even insinuate that. my point exactly about the 90% thing - the obese use a larger amount of resources without being that large a percent of society.
I think i am goign to end this discussion because you don't seem capable of not taking this to the wrong level. I didn't say that anyone should be forced to have gastric bypass - simply using it as an example of how much obesity costs the healthcare system. the best option would obvisouly to diet and exercise to a healthy weight.
although you claim to be happy and healthy with your weight, your comments indicate otherwise
Me
Where in the world did I say I was happy with the situation? Please learn to argue the facts as presented.
Her
you can't be 100% sure of anything about me...you have no idea what i weigh, what i have weighed or what i think about heavy people.
Me
as you took my comments, so I took yours. As you see my picture, so I see yours. Based on what you have written and how you have presented yourselves you are right, I can not be 100% sure, but I can certainly presume, (especially as you said it outright!) that you believe fat people, and smokers, should be in a separate kupah (inferring they have no place in yours).
Her
i merely am saying that it would be cost-effective for obese people to be in their own kupah - and yes, cost-effective for the non obese. and if all the obese were in a separate kupah, the money spent on the obesity related care may not leave enough for you to get your strep test! i'm glad you haven't suffered from any of the typical obesity related illnesses, but you are only 30 plus and I'm sorry to say, the odds are not in your favor. and please don't misconstrye that as a threat or a nasty comment. I'm simply saying you need to look at the lifetime, not the youth.
Me
How would it be cost effective. a % of a paycheck is a % of a paycheck. Believe me the only threat I see from you is the fact that someone may one day listen to you and I will then be thrown out if I show up for a strep test. The odds are never in my favour. They were not in my favour when I was in school at a mathy place and wanted to study arts. They were not in my favour when I was a fat kid and started dating. They were seriously not in my favour when I wanted to move to Israel and was flat broke- fortunatly I put my trust in God and not in people who point out the odds.
I am frusterated and sad the soemone in the health care field should be willing to say to my face (well, my avatar picture) that I am a problem for the kupah becuase I am staying alive. I have a huge problem with the fact she thinks other areas are acceptable risks, and would have me go through major surgery so her seat on the plane could be more comfortable. I am severely pissed that I know there are loads of people like her out there and they are the reason that I am scared to leave the house half of the time- and truly aggravated with myself that I let people like this get to me.
Sunday, April 12, 2009
Moo.
So today I was wondering around the Zoo with my husband and my daughter. Minding my own business and trying not to get killed by the mass amounts of people who had the same idea that we did for a day out and about, and I got moo'd at.
Not even a subtle "I was not really sure what I just heard" sort of noise, a major, loud, I stared right at the shmuck and he just gave me a nasty smile sort of noise.
Oh in hindsite I came up with a million comebacks that I could have said. I could have made reference to any other animals around us, started pointing and commenting loudly about the animal who was out of his cage, or even just kicked him hard and said something like, "I'm so sorry, is that not what you were asking for? I am afraid my bovine is a little weak".
But I didn't. I just let him get to me.
Yeah, I know. Who is the real shmuck. Him who clearly only has half a brain or me who thought she had a full one but let him get to me anyway. I guess I am just out of practice as I do not normally get such comments. There is no question that I am fat, but I do think I look fairly decent most of the time.
Fairly at least.
But even if I don't (and I still think that, at least today, I did) what gives someone else the right to dehumanize me like that? An old Jewish guy no less who you think would know the ends that dehumanizing can lead to! My Jewish education taught me that it is the first step on a slippery slope to things that go well beyond silly noises.
I spent the rest of the day miserable (and believe me there were enough things to push me well over the edge without having dealt with this early in the day.
Not even a subtle "I was not really sure what I just heard" sort of noise, a major, loud, I stared right at the shmuck and he just gave me a nasty smile sort of noise.
Oh in hindsite I came up with a million comebacks that I could have said. I could have made reference to any other animals around us, started pointing and commenting loudly about the animal who was out of his cage, or even just kicked him hard and said something like, "I'm so sorry, is that not what you were asking for? I am afraid my bovine is a little weak".
But I didn't. I just let him get to me.
Yeah, I know. Who is the real shmuck. Him who clearly only has half a brain or me who thought she had a full one but let him get to me anyway. I guess I am just out of practice as I do not normally get such comments. There is no question that I am fat, but I do think I look fairly decent most of the time.
Fairly at least.
But even if I don't (and I still think that, at least today, I did) what gives someone else the right to dehumanize me like that? An old Jewish guy no less who you think would know the ends that dehumanizing can lead to! My Jewish education taught me that it is the first step on a slippery slope to things that go well beyond silly noises.
I spent the rest of the day miserable (and believe me there were enough things to push me well over the edge without having dealt with this early in the day.
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